It’s Turtles All the Way Down

Last week my son Matthew recommended a recent episode of the CBC radio program, Ideas.  It is actually a rebroadcast of the 2005 Massey Lecture by Thomas King, a writer and, for this incarnation, a master storyteller. The episode can be found here; Stories can be both wondrous and dangerous, according to writer Thomas King https://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/stories-can-be-both-wondrous-and-dangerous-according-to-writer-thomas-king-1.5593496

I am and have been interested in stories and particularly the genre of myths, legends and fairy tales.   This edition of the program certainly was of interest as it dealt in great part to a comparison of the myths of two creation stories; one which, although not identified as such, was a story, I assume to be of first-nation origin – but perhaps that is only my interpretation.  This story involved the Great Mother named Charm who gave birth to twins.  The twins being the same but opposite – one right-handed and one left-handed, created the pairs of opposites in the world including the first man and the first woman. 

The second was easier to identify, the story of creation from the Judeo-Christian bible involving those rather famous, or perhaps infamous first couple, Adam and Eve and, oh yes, that most crafty of God’s creatures, the serpent - let’s not forget the serpent.  I should note here that I don’t use ‘myth’ in the sense that it is just a story and not true.  But in the sense that it is a story that deals with the relationship between God or the gods and humankind and contains a capital T-Truth.

King begins his ‘lecture’, which is more a lesson on story-telling, with a story which has become apocryphal about someone who talks about the scientific structure of the world and is challenged by someone who knows that the world sits on the back of a gigantic turtle.  When asked about what the turtle sits on, he is told, it is ‘turtles all the way down’.  I am giving the abridged version for the sake of brevity.  Now, I had first heard a version of the story in Stephen Hawking’s 1988 book A Brief History of Time:

A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise." The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?" "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down!"

As King notes, this story has been told in many versions at many different times and places.  However, some features of the story never change, the turtle never changes and never swims away.  We could ask where the capital T truth is in this story/myth.  Well I would say that the world/universe was not created by humans and we desire to understand who created it and how it was created and more to the point, why?

Turning to the two creation stories, the same question arises.  These are both myths – in the good sense that they contain Truth.   In the first-nation story there are many aspects to recommend it – I would recommend that you listen to it.  It is one in which all creatures cooperate and there is no moral judgement about good and evil – I imagine that comes later in the myths of those people – but perhaps not.  The creation story of Adam and Eve and the serpent do not come out very well in comparison.  It is a story, apparently about the naivety and disobedience of the first parents and the duplicity of the craftiest of God’s creatures.   It even was the basis for the doctrine of original sin by Augustine which, in my view has done a great deal of damage in the history of the Christian church and the world. 

I propose that this is not the Truth in the Christian creation story.  I am aware that I am treading on dangerous territory here so instead of declaring a different Truth, I will end with asking a few questions.  What would human beings, who are created in God’s image be, if out first parents had not tasted of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?  What if humans had continued to live in that pre-conscious state of paradise in the Garden of Eden in that state of perpetual innocence?  Would there have been any Cain and Able to have a conflict over who’s offering was better and commit the first act of fratricide?  Would a perpetual state of bliss enable humans to live as God actually intended his greatest creation to live?  Perhaps God had something else in mind when God placed the serpent in the Garden. 

Things to consider on your journey – blessings.